Trump can't stop winning!

[zombie]

also, i don't see fight club or nu-metal particularly being about great people being great, or the triumph of human spirit. that very much seems cynical and a little nihilistic too.

To be fair, those points were mine and those examples were his.

true. fair enough. i'll wait to get a better feel for what he's trying to say.

[zombie]

Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

I think you might be onto something there. Even the great TV, books, movies we consume today seem to be on the whole trending towards very nihilistic...devoid of wanting to really explore and celebrate the human spirit.

you don't find that the superhero movies (particularly those by disney/marvel. though wonderwoman seems to be that way too, based on reviews) are about celebrating human spirit in a way? or is it too superficial, too commercial in your opinion?

I think you can make a case that Wonder Woman is capable of having that far-reaching impact on young girls, but other than that I think the market is both too superficial and too over-saturated at this point. Superhero movie releases don't have the same feel they would have even 10 years ago.

do you find anything that is impactful in that way? maybe it's just being overlooked, or do you really feel like there is nothing that offers (or attempts to offer) that kind of message or appeal in the viewer? (or listener / reader.. maybe too)

i think the recent battlestar galactica was going for that kind of message, but it maybe missed the mark, or didn't get a wide enough viewership to make the impact. i'll have to think if there were more, or more recent.

[Headhunter]

Most Christians in America don't interpret the Bible at face value of course. To me, it's always been clear that the fantastic stories in the Bible were written for the purpose of instilling virtues in its readers. Best way to get that authentic reaction that's going to make people want to take on the characteristics that make for a positive contributor to society is to tell some powerful and badass stories about memorable figures and events. People are still inspired today by the characters we read about in great books or see in great movies, so they understood human psychology pretty well.

I would agree. And maybe because we are so divided is because we have none of that now? Reagan's 80's fucking ruled with horror movies of that era, action movies with Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme. The 90's easily swelled out of all fucking things. It hit a groove in the late 90's with the rise of nu-metal and Fight Club type shit being on a pulse. And then the early 2000's after 9/11 has some shit, but generally meh.

I think you might be onto something there. Even the great TV, books, movies we consume today seem to be on the whole trending towards very nihilistic...devoid of wanting to really explore and celebrate the human spirit.

you don't find that the superhero movies (particularly those by disney/marvel. though wonderwoman seems to be that way too, based on reviews) are about celebrating human spirit in a way? or is it too superficial, too commercial in your opinion?

I think you can make a case that Wonder Woman is capable of having that far-reaching impact on young girls, but other than that I think the market is both too superficial and too over-saturated at this point. Superhero movie releases don't have the same feel they would have even 10 years ago.

do you find anything that is impactful in that way? maybe it's just being overlooked, or do you really feel like there is nothing that offers (or attempts to offer) that kind of message or appeal in the viewer? (or listener / reader.. maybe too)

i think the recent battlestar galactica was going for that kind of message, but it maybe missed the mark, or didn't get a wide enough viewership to make the impact. i'll have to think if there were more, or more recent.

Excluding depictions of real people, I dunno. Not off the top of my head anyway.

[Headhunter]

One such character of that Biblical proportion was Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird.

In 2015, Harper Lee publishes the "sequel" (it was really the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird) that depicts Atticus as a flawed and racist man. That's not a perfect example as it was written in the late 1950s but that it was released five and a half decades later and tore down a fictional hero is still worth noting. Nobody demanded we see a more cynical interpretation of a beloved character but in a way as a society we sort of did.

[zombie]

One such character of that Biblical proportion was Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird.

In 2015, Harper Lee publishes the "sequel" (it was really the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird) that depicts Atticus as a flawed and racist man. That's not a perfect example as it was written in the late 1950s but that it was released five and a half decades later and tore down a fictional hero is still worth noting. Nobody demanded we see a more cynical interpretation of a beloved character but in a way as a society we sort of did.

welp, this post has succeeded in bumming me out, and i haven't even seen / read to kill a mockingbird.

[Foo]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

[zombie]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

[Foo]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

[zombie]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

no, i wouldn't want to live in a muslim nation in our current time.

[Foo]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

no, i wouldn't want to live in a muslim nation in our current time.

At any time?

They are perpetual shitholes.

[zombie]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

no, i wouldn't want to live in a muslim nation in our current time.

At any time?

They are perpetual shitholes.

i think that any place that is ruled under the guise of religious-law is probably not so great, on top of which they are bombed and attacked constantly. it doesn't make for an ideal life.

[Foo]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

no, i wouldn't want to live in a muslim nation in our current time.

At any time?

They are perpetual shitholes.

i think that any place that is ruled under the guise of religious-law is probably not so great, on top of which they are bombed and attacked constantly. it doesn't make for an ideal life.

It's ok to call them violent shitholes.

[zombie]

We should all be thankful our nation was founded by and so heavily influenced by Christians, because most of the places that were are pretty nice and the ones that were not tend to be shitholes.

wasn't our nation founded by people who fled from another heavily christian nation?

Yeah, but it is pretty nice as well until the Muslims started killing them.

Is there a Muslim nation you would want to live in? Christians are nice and give you shit. Muslims will chop your head and arms off.

no, i wouldn't want to live in a muslim nation in our current time.

At any time?

They are perpetual shitholes.

i think that any place that is ruled under the guise of religious-law is probably not so great, on top of which they are bombed and attacked constantly. it doesn't make for an ideal life.

It's ok to call them violent shitholes.

fair enough. they are violent shitholes for my lifetime, at least.

[Headhunter]

"At any time?" Why not?

Baghdad was the cultural and economic capital of the world until the Mongols destroyed it. The Muslims were the leaders in innovation and culture basically from the fall of Rome until the Renaissance. And where had all the great Greco-Roman culture that eventually influenced the Renaissance gone to? Yup, the Middle East. It came back to Europe as scholars fled the aggressive Ottoman Empire in the 1300s-1400s. That's hundreds of years where the Muslim world was objectively the best place in the world to live.

[Headhunter]

Keep in mind, that's while giving you the benefit of glorifying European civilization from the 1400s-1700s where religious conflict and even war was frequent.

[Headhunter]

Also, how long have most countries in the Middle East truly been independent? Ottoman Empire, French and British, Americans...

[Headhunter]

Last few points: Aboriginal people on three continents were essentially wiped out under the banner of Christianity. On the flip side, generally when Muslims were able to conquer the known world and they took over Christian and Jewish regions during the original caliphates, those people were taxed more but were allowed to continue practicing their faith peacefully.

Do you want to know the real fundamental problem with Islam that separates it from Christianity and has resulted in more problems in our modern world? It was written to be a state-coordinated religion and Christianity wasn't (but essentially was used that way for a long time anyway). So the state can legitimately claim some autonomy and twist the original dogma to whatever extent they want to and are capable of while in power, the same cannot be done for Christianity (but, again, sometimes it still is). The problem is weak democracies and economies, Islam is just used as a tool by any radical that can get their hands on power in the region.

[Jason]

Thanks, Cool Breeze.

[Headhunter]

Yeah, that's pretty much all you've got. Ad hominem. Do anything but think.

[Reign in Blood]

Thanks, Cool Breeze.

I liked the discussion about violent shitholes, how they enjoyed better times and why they are the way they are.