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Nobody said "no white men work at Disney" lolHeadhunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 1:55 pm My brother and sister-in-law both have respected corporate office jobs at Disney. They hire white men.
Nobody implied that’s what you said either lolJason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:02 pmNobody said "no white men work at Disney" lolHeadhunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 1:55 pm My brother and sister-in-law both have respected corporate office jobs at Disney. They hire white men.
i don't think that lia thomas is at all comparable to fallon fox, based on what info i have.Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:49 pmGenerally you can't even compete if your numbers test out of the range of normalcy in just about any sporting event. I'm all for anyone and everyone having a platform to compete, but when you have a biological phenomenon like this, it becomes extremely tricky and you have to take into account the safety of fighters. The fact they are allowing this person to compete without disclosing any results is shady as hell and if anything it puts unnecessary criticism on the person who may simply just want to compete.Slaughterhouserock wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:14 pmDo we know anyone else's test numbers? Is that a normal thing to know? Do we even know what they use as the upper limit for a test result?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:12 pm I know you don't follow sports, but undisclosed numbers when it comes to testing is inexcusable and implies there is something to hide. It is a huge deal and must be talked about especially when the literal livelihood of fighters depends on it. This is a huge issue.
Allowing people like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas to perform is on a completely different level of horse shit though. Especially Fallon Fox. Women are just biologically not bred for fighting at all and having Fallon Fox come in with male bone density and strength and literally cracking skulls is unacceptable.
Fallon and Lia were not born with some incredibly rare biological issue. They were born men, with male genetics, musculature and bone density. No amount of hormone blockers can take that away. Therefore, swimming records are shattered and female faces are reorganized. You could argue Lia's pursuit is less harmful to women, sure, but all women literally cannot compete because one guy (who isn't even very good amongst male swimmers) decided he wants to be known as a female and there is no woman in the world who even comes close. We're eradicating the accomplishments of women by allowing this nonsense to continue.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:24 pmi don't think that lia thomas is at all comparable to fallon fox, based on what info i have.Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:49 pmGenerally you can't even compete if your numbers test out of the range of normalcy in just about any sporting event. I'm all for anyone and everyone having a platform to compete, but when you have a biological phenomenon like this, it becomes extremely tricky and you have to take into account the safety of fighters. The fact they are allowing this person to compete without disclosing any results is shady as hell and if anything it puts unnecessary criticism on the person who may simply just want to compete.Slaughterhouserock wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:14 pmDo we know anyone else's test numbers? Is that a normal thing to know? Do we even know what they use as the upper limit for a test result?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:12 pm I know you don't follow sports, but undisclosed numbers when it comes to testing is inexcusable and implies there is something to hide. It is a huge deal and must be talked about especially when the literal livelihood of fighters depends on it. This is a huge issue.
Allowing people like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas to perform is on a completely different level of horse shit though. Especially Fallon Fox. Women are just biologically not bred for fighting at all and having Fallon Fox come in with male bone density and strength and literally cracking skulls is unacceptable.
Men vs. Menzombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:41 pm somewhere to compete, absolutely. and i don't think it should be man vs. transwoman or vice versa. but that may be what the compromise has to be, as much as i don't like it. but no one has really brought a lot of compelling reason to make the case for that or for women not competing against transwomen generally. there are odd cases like fallon fox, but that's not the norm so far as i've seen it.
It's difficult to say due to all the variables. An adult male that transitions into a woman is going to have the physical advantages most men have. This would be lessened if they are on hrt, but if they were training before transitioning, it would carry over alot. The inverse is true for trans men(something people often forget is that women also transition, it's not just men).Headhunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:36 pm Everyone should have some space to compete. You don’t want anyone to feel marginalized. There are fair questions to ask from there and I don’t think there are easy solutions that will make everyone happy unfortunately.
trans vs, trans is still man vs. woman isn't it? or would you separate that into two leagues?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:46 pmMen vs. Menzombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:41 pm somewhere to compete, absolutely. and i don't think it should be man vs. transwoman or vice versa. but that may be what the compromise has to be, as much as i don't like it. but no one has really brought a lot of compelling reason to make the case for that or for women not competing against transwomen generally. there are odd cases like fallon fox, but that's not the norm so far as i've seen it.
Women vs. Women
Trans vs. Trans
hormone blockers? are you talking puberty blockers? that doesn't apply here, does it? did they transition when they were children?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:45 pmFallon and Lia were not born with some incredibly rare biological issue. They were born men, with male genetics, musculature and bone density. No amount of hormone blockers can take that away. Therefore, swimming records are shattered and female faces are reorganized. You could argue Lia's pursuit is less harmful to women, sure, but all women literally cannot compete because one guy (who isn't even very good amongst male swimmers) decided he wants to be known as a female and there is no woman in the world who even comes close. We're eradicating the accomplishments of women by allowing this nonsense to continue.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:24 pmi don't think that lia thomas is at all comparable to fallon fox, based on what info i have.Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:49 pmGenerally you can't even compete if your numbers test out of the range of normalcy in just about any sporting event. I'm all for anyone and everyone having a platform to compete, but when you have a biological phenomenon like this, it becomes extremely tricky and you have to take into account the safety of fighters. The fact they are allowing this person to compete without disclosing any results is shady as hell and if anything it puts unnecessary criticism on the person who may simply just want to compete.Slaughterhouserock wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:14 pmDo we know anyone else's test numbers? Is that a normal thing to know? Do we even know what they use as the upper limit for a test result?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:12 pm I know you don't follow sports, but undisclosed numbers when it comes to testing is inexcusable and implies there is something to hide. It is a huge deal and must be talked about especially when the literal livelihood of fighters depends on it. This is a huge issue.
Allowing people like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas to perform is on a completely different level of horse shit though. Especially Fallon Fox. Women are just biologically not bred for fighting at all and having Fallon Fox come in with male bone density and strength and literally cracking skulls is unacceptable.
It would probably sort itself out somehow.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:07 pmtrans vs, trans is still man vs. woman isn't it? or would you separate that into two leagues?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:46 pmMen vs. Menzombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:41 pm somewhere to compete, absolutely. and i don't think it should be man vs. transwoman or vice versa. but that may be what the compromise has to be, as much as i don't like it. but no one has really brought a lot of compelling reason to make the case for that or for women not competing against transwomen generally. there are odd cases like fallon fox, but that's not the norm so far as i've seen it.
Women vs. Women
Trans vs. Trans
I can't speak to Lia, but Fallon transitioned at 30, I believe.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:13 pmhormone blockers? are you talking puberty blockers? that doesn't apply here, does it? did they transition when they were children?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:45 pmFallon and Lia were not born with some incredibly rare biological issue. They were born men, with male genetics, musculature and bone density. No amount of hormone blockers can take that away. Therefore, swimming records are shattered and female faces are reorganized. You could argue Lia's pursuit is less harmful to women, sure, but all women literally cannot compete because one guy (who isn't even very good amongst male swimmers) decided he wants to be known as a female and there is no woman in the world who even comes close. We're eradicating the accomplishments of women by allowing this nonsense to continue.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:24 pmi don't think that lia thomas is at all comparable to fallon fox, based on what info i have.Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:49 pmGenerally you can't even compete if your numbers test out of the range of normalcy in just about any sporting event. I'm all for anyone and everyone having a platform to compete, but when you have a biological phenomenon like this, it becomes extremely tricky and you have to take into account the safety of fighters. The fact they are allowing this person to compete without disclosing any results is shady as hell and if anything it puts unnecessary criticism on the person who may simply just want to compete.Slaughterhouserock wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:14 pmDo we know anyone else's test numbers? Is that a normal thing to know? Do we even know what they use as the upper limit for a test result?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:12 pm I know you don't follow sports, but undisclosed numbers when it comes to testing is inexcusable and implies there is something to hide. It is a huge deal and must be talked about especially when the literal livelihood of fighters depends on it. This is a huge issue.
Allowing people like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas to perform is on a completely different level of horse shit though. Especially Fallon Fox. Women are just biologically not bred for fighting at all and having Fallon Fox come in with male bone density and strength and literally cracking skulls is unacceptable.
but yes, hormones and puberty blockers do have serious effect on their body and bone density when taken in the long term and/or before puberty. on top of that, women have beaten lia thomas, so it is not destroying the accomplishment of women, only specific women.
Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:33 pmIt would probably sort itself out somehow.zombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:07 pmtrans vs, trans is still man vs. woman isn't it? or would you separate that into two leagues?Jason wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:46 pmMen vs. Menzombie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:41 pm somewhere to compete, absolutely. and i don't think it should be man vs. transwoman or vice versa. but that may be what the compromise has to be, as much as i don't like it. but no one has really brought a lot of compelling reason to make the case for that or for women not competing against transwomen generally. there are odd cases like fallon fox, but that's not the norm so far as i've seen it.
Women vs. Women
Trans vs. Trans
you don't have to hold your tongue.i don't know the extent of damage she did to her opponents, you said busted skulls, but she seems like an outlier? and also not likely puberty blockers in her case. nor do i know how far after starting transition that she began fighting.
Enh, if this is school where you want the student to have the experience, be part of a team or squad, whatever, everybody gets a ribbon, ok. Let us all go home and feel good inside. I can back that where it don't matter. But with real competition and especially the Olympics, we should always be demanding the best, fairest, what have you. Vetting should be scrutinized severely.Headhunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:36 pm Everyone should have some space to compete. You don’t want anyone to feel marginalized. There are fair questions to ask from there and I don’t think there are easy solutions that will make everyone happy unfortunately.
Priority number one is attention/ratings/money. What better opportunity than this situation that everyone is now talking about and arguing over?Reign in Blood wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:50 pmEnh, if this is school where you want the student to have the experience, be part of a team or squad, whatever, everybody gets a ribbon, ok. Let us all go home and feel good inside. I can back that where it don't matter. But with real competition and especially the Olympics, we should always be demanding the best, fairest, what have you. Vetting should be scrutinized severely.Headhunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 3:36 pm Everyone should have some space to compete. You don’t want anyone to feel marginalized. There are fair questions to ask from there and I don’t think there are easy solutions that will make everyone happy unfortunately.