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Even if she was born a female and not even trans, they didn't disclose her T-levels on purpose, and we don't know why. So if she's taking some form of steroids or performance enhancers, she should be barred from competition.
that's nothing to do with what i said.
Wikipedia is not a source, and you'd be hard pressed to find even half the participants in the Olympics with a wikipedia page. I don't know who she is, but if you want to see the history of her fights you'd probably find them at boxrec.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:53 pm wikipedia does not list angela carini's wins and/or losses the way that they have with every other boxer or fighter i've looked up. i assume she must have some kind of record as she made it to the olympics... why aren't right wingers bitching about that, instead of all this stupid shit!
wikipedia is not a source. it's a reference that includes actual sources. i understand that.Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:45 pmWikipedia is not a source, and you'd be hard pressed to find even half the participants in the Olympics with a wikipedia page. I don't know who she is, but if you want to see the history of her fights you'd probably find them at boxrec.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:53 pm wikipedia does not list angela carini's wins and/or losses the way that they have with every other boxer or fighter i've looked up. i assume she must have some kind of record as she made it to the olympics... why aren't right wingers bitching about that, instead of all this stupid shit!
I can't find any definitive information regarding the gender status of the person that beat her, so I'll never be convinced one way or another that she was either born with a Y chromosome or born female. The media got their hands on it and I'm fine with never knowing. But again, assuming these two fighters are both biologically female, what we do know is the fighter that won had her T-level tests hidden for undisclosed reasons. Absolutely unacceptable when the livelihood of fighters is on the line and ESPECIALLY female. Women are not built to fight at all if we're being honest. They do not have the muscle tissue and bone density of men. Their neck muscles are particularly weak and if someone, man or woman, has an elevated level of testosterone, the advantage is astronomical and detrimental to the physical health of a fighter, especially female. Fighters get popped and suspended all the time in MMA and boxing. This person should have never been allowed to step foot into the ring until the results of the T-levels were posted and within the limit of the athletic commission.
I couldn't tell you who is being shady. I follow MMA very closely and often times certain fighters pop for some type of performance enhancer that is illegal and they're still allowed to perform. Jon Jones has been suspended numerous times and has also gotten away with "pulsing" numerous times. It happens all the time and it's just difficult to regulate too.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:56 pmwikipedia is not a source. it's a reference that includes actual sources. i understand that.Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:45 pmWikipedia is not a source, and you'd be hard pressed to find even half the participants in the Olympics with a wikipedia page. I don't know who she is, but if you want to see the history of her fights you'd probably find them at boxrec.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:53 pm wikipedia does not list angela carini's wins and/or losses the way that they have with every other boxer or fighter i've looked up. i assume she must have some kind of record as she made it to the olympics... why aren't right wingers bitching about that, instead of all this stupid shit!
I can't find any definitive information regarding the gender status of the person that beat her, so I'll never be convinced one way or another that she was either born with a Y chromosome or born female. The media got their hands on it and I'm fine with never knowing. But again, assuming these two fighters are both biologically female, what we do know is the fighter that won had her T-level tests hidden for undisclosed reasons. Absolutely unacceptable when the livelihood of fighters is on the line and ESPECIALLY female. Women are not built to fight at all if we're being honest. They do not have the muscle tissue and bone density of men. Their neck muscles are particularly weak and if someone, man or woman, has an elevated level of testosterone, the advantage is astronomical and detrimental to the physical health of a fighter, especially female. Fighters get popped and suspended all the time in MMA and boxing. This person should have never been allowed to step foot into the ring until the results of the T-levels were posted and within the limit of the athletic commission.
did the fighter have her results hidden or did some organization (like the IBA?) hide her results? i agree something shady is going on. i just don't know who is actually being shady. if she is not qualified to fight she should be excluded. the iba should be required to release the documents regarding her test results, whether she's keeping them from doing so to hide her levels or they are doing so because her levels are not elevated to the degree that they claim and the results would show that. either way it is shady, as said before.
it is difficult when people want to cheat. if the gossip was about whether she cheated or not, it would be far more tolerable and far less potentially damaging to not just imane khelif's career.Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:01 pmI couldn't tell you who is being shady. I follow MMA very closely and often times certain fighters pop for some type of performance enhancer that is illegal and they're still allowed to perform. Jon Jones has been suspended numerous times and has also gotten away with "pulsing" numerous times. It happens all the time and it's just difficult to regulate too.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:56 pmwikipedia is not a source. it's a reference that includes actual sources. i understand that.Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:45 pmWikipedia is not a source, and you'd be hard pressed to find even half the participants in the Olympics with a wikipedia page. I don't know who she is, but if you want to see the history of her fights you'd probably find them at boxrec.zombie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:53 pm wikipedia does not list angela carini's wins and/or losses the way that they have with every other boxer or fighter i've looked up. i assume she must have some kind of record as she made it to the olympics... why aren't right wingers bitching about that, instead of all this stupid shit!
I can't find any definitive information regarding the gender status of the person that beat her, so I'll never be convinced one way or another that she was either born with a Y chromosome or born female. The media got their hands on it and I'm fine with never knowing. But again, assuming these two fighters are both biologically female, what we do know is the fighter that won had her T-level tests hidden for undisclosed reasons. Absolutely unacceptable when the livelihood of fighters is on the line and ESPECIALLY female. Women are not built to fight at all if we're being honest. They do not have the muscle tissue and bone density of men. Their neck muscles are particularly weak and if someone, man or woman, has an elevated level of testosterone, the advantage is astronomical and detrimental to the physical health of a fighter, especially female. Fighters get popped and suspended all the time in MMA and boxing. This person should have never been allowed to step foot into the ring until the results of the T-levels were posted and within the limit of the athletic commission.
did the fighter have her results hidden or did some organization (like the IBA?) hide her results? i agree something shady is going on. i just don't know who is actually being shady. if she is not qualified to fight she should be excluded. the iba should be required to release the documents regarding her test results, whether she's keeping them from doing so to hide her levels or they are doing so because her levels are not elevated to the degree that they claim and the results would show that. either way it is shady, as said before.
I think steroids and performance enhancing drugs should only be relegated in physical combat. All other sports I really don't care. Lance Armstrong should not have received an ounce of criticism. Every athlete he performed against in the top 20 all tested positive for the same shit and he whooped the shit out of them. Meanwhile all the people that made millions off of him who shame him are the biggest weasels because they'll never relinquish the money they made off of him.
so long as steroid use, in any sport, is documented and kept track off officially and athletes who aren't doping can opt out of facing someone who is without penalty, then do it all you want. fighter or not. if an athlete is doing it secretly, no matter how many others are too, then he should be punished. i don't know the details with lance armstrong. i'm just talking generally.Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:20 pmI think steroids and performance enhancing drugs should only be relegated in physical combat. All other sports I really don't care. Lance Armstrong should not have received an ounce of criticism. Every athlete he performed against in the top 20 all tested positive for the same shit and he whooped the shit out of them. Meanwhile all the people that made millions off of him who shame him are the biggest weasels because they'll never relinquish the money they made off of him.
Generally each test is done separately, they probably did a karyotype test, saw XY chromosomes,, informed the fighter that he/she could only perform against men, the fighter decided not to move forward and no testosterone test was done.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:36 pm i believe the ioc (international olympics committee) and not the iba, cleared her to fight after their own investigation. is that not correct?
why would the iba not test her testosterone levels? is that not a common test? what is the separate but recognized test? was the confidentiality on behalf of imane khelif or on behalf of the iba officials who tested her and didn't clear her to compete?
gossip sucks and should have no place in the discussion but we're in a culture war and if you can make people believe that she is a part of the trans conspiracy, ben shapiro and joe rogan and j k rowling are going to have to try! ughJason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:44 pmGenerally each test is done separately, they probably did a test for chromosomes, informed the fighter that he/she could only perform against men, the fighter decided not to move forward and no testosterone test was done.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:36 pm i believe the ioc (international olympics committee) and not the iba, cleared her to fight after their own investigation. is that not correct?
why would the iba not test her testosterone levels? is that not a common test? what is the separate but recognized test? was the confidentiality on behalf of imane khelif or on behalf of the iba officials who tested her and didn't clear her to compete?
That's just where the bread crumbs seem to lead us. So either way, looks like everyone all over the planet jumped to conclusions. So quick to have an opinion and shit on others. Social media sucks.
These tests are done for the safety of fighters. Every athletic commission is different and there have obviously been instances of biological men beating the brakes off of women. So it's probably hard for this person to find a place to get approved to fight women, but again, this person was never barred from fighting men.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:52 pmgossip sucks and should have no place in the discussion but we're in a culture war and if you can make people believe that she is a part of the trans conspiracy, ben shapiro and joe rogan and j k rowling are going to have to try! ughJason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:44 pmGenerally each test is done separately, they probably did a test for chromosomes, informed the fighter that he/she could only perform against men, the fighter decided not to move forward and no testosterone test was done.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:36 pm i believe the ioc (international olympics committee) and not the iba, cleared her to fight after their own investigation. is that not correct?
why would the iba not test her testosterone levels? is that not a common test? what is the separate but recognized test? was the confidentiality on behalf of imane khelif or on behalf of the iba officials who tested her and didn't clear her to compete?
That's just where the bread crumbs seem to lead us. So either way, looks like everyone all over the planet jumped to conclusions. So quick to have an opinion and shit on others. Social media sucks.
she has fought other women before the olympics. have any of them brought up concerns? has competing against her taken a toll on their body that is so far beyond the norm, as it relates to their sport? is this really a huge harm to continue to let her compete against other women?
HRT is not going to prevent a biological male from having an enormous advantage unless you're talking about giving it to children, in which anyone who even attempts to do so should be thrown in prison.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:20 pm i get that there is a difference between men and women. those differences are lessened when hrt is undertaken. if a ruling body decides that an athlete can not compete with others because they don't meet some part of the qualifications, then so be it. but right now, it seems like the decision is being made, at least in part, because of outside political concerns and i kind of hate that. everyone should, but to each their own i suppose.
can you please show me an article where a trans man or a potentially xx man has been barred from fighting other men? i really want this to be balanced if it's going to be made into such a damn problem.
this is politics again. calm down.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:30 pmHRT is not going to prevent a biological male from having an enormous advantage unless you're talking about giving it to children, in which anyone who even attempts to do so should be thrown in prison.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:20 pm i get that there is a difference between men and women. those differences are lessened when hrt is undertaken. if a ruling body decides that an athlete can not compete with others because they don't meet some part of the qualifications, then so be it. but right now, it seems like the decision is being made, at least in part, because of outside political concerns and i kind of hate that. everyone should, but to each their own i suppose.
can you please show me an article where a trans man or a potentially xx man has been barred from fighting other men? i really want this to be balanced if it's going to be made into such a damn problem.
If you really want balance, you can just throw men and women in the same ring together and watch women get murdered.