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I mean, we've discussed this off and on for 8 years and haven't made any ground at all. Lol. At the end of the day we just need to admit to ourselves that we really don't know shit about what is going on behind closed doors and use our judgment to the best of our abilities. You could very well be right about Trump hating his base, but from my read on things he does and the people he's pulling in, I just don't see it that way.

Headhunter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:31 pm And you can take the last bit directly from my professional experiences. I had both wealthy conservative and wealthy liberal clients (you know who one of them is). They both talk about the majority of conservatives like they are disgusting zoo animals.

Hey, you know what. Your inside sources said Rodgers to Denver was already a done deal but somehow he's a god damn Jet.

Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:47 pm

Headhunter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:31 pm And you can take the last bit directly from my professional experiences. I had both wealthy conservative and wealthy liberal clients (you know who one of them is). They both talk about the majority of conservatives like they are disgusting zoo animals.

Hey, you know what. Your inside sources said Rodgers to Denver was already a done deal but somehow he's a god damn Jet.

That wasn’t a client, that was Elway’s dumb ass getting liquored up and blabbing when he wasn’t even GM anymore.
They did think it was a done deal though, GB spite rejected an offer they gave every indication they would accept. Oh well!

It all worked out in the end. MoDix will be the first rookie to win Super Bowl MVP.

Payton-Nix 2024.

The balls on this dude...

lol. He also promised to release all the files last time he was president and then allowed Pompeo to withhold everything sensitive. He’s full of shit as usual.

Pompeo is a dillwad. Hopefully he'll be left out of Trump's second term. Trump did declassify them already, but it would make sense to release them all in his second term. Does remain to be seen, though. But to announce that in front of a crowd one month after being shot in the head while standing next to the son and nephew of men who were killed in a likely government orchestrated operation is the ballsiest shit ever. But an empty promise would be disappointing. Although I've already accepted that likely not all files will ever be released, and even if so, probably leave out the most crucial of details.

He declassified some, not all. Biden did the same. And declassify importantly doesn’t mean unredact. The CIA will control the flow of information as always and Trump won’t do a thing about it because he doesn’t care about this. This is a nothingburger, just a bargaining chip to get an endorsement from RFK Jr.

You can bet there is no smoking gun in the files. If there ever were files on the assassination operation, they are surely long gone. What the CIA is hiding are files pertaining to their prior relationship with Oswald. But tbh anyone who has dug into the case on some level would conclude that he was used by the CIA and probably other agencies (likely the FBI and Naval intelligence).

Barr McClellan served as one of LBJ's attorneys in the mid 60s up until his death. If his book is to be believed, Edward Clark organized the assassination through LBJs request and did it for around 6 million dollars. When Barr worked under Clark, he claimed there was a "Penthouse" area in the upper floors of the Clark, Thomas and Winters legal offices in downtown Austin that harbored the Johnson-Clark legal files. The Penthouse area was off limits to everyone, including their highest ranked attorneys. At the time of McClellan's allegations and eventual book release, he claimed if any files should be unsealed to reveal the most truth about the Kennedy Assassination, it would be the Johnson-Clark legal files, but even above that, the psychiatric records of LBJ in the years before his death. They hired a private psychiatrist to deal with Johnson's guilt about the involvement and paid him a million dollars to ensure secrecy. Definitely some juicy shit if he's speaking truth.

Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:47 pm

Headhunter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:31 pm And you can take the last bit directly from my professional experiences. I had both wealthy conservative and wealthy liberal clients (you know who one of them is). They both talk about the majority of conservatives like they are disgusting zoo animals.

Hey, you know what. Your inside sources said Rodgers to Denver was already a done deal but somehow he's a god damn Jet.

I never discuss politics with clients. Wealthy or otherwise.

Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 11:58 pm Barr McClellan served as one of LBJ's attorneys in the mid 60s up until his death. If his book is to be believed, Edward Clark organized the assassination through LBJs request and did it for around 6 million dollars. When Barr worked under Clark, he claimed there was a "Penthouse" area in the upper floors of the Clark, Thomas and Winters legal offices in downtown Austin that harbored the Johnson-Clark legal files. The Penthouse area was off limits to everyone, including their highest ranked attorneys. At the time of McClellan's allegations and eventual book release, he claimed if any files should be unsealed to reveal the most truth about the Kennedy Assassination, it would be the Johnson-Clark legal files, but even above that, the psychiatric records of LBJ in the years before his death. They hired a private psychiatrist to deal with Johnson's guilt about the involvement and paid him a million dollars to ensure secrecy. Definitely some juicy shit if he's speaking truth.

I’m not a believer in the “Blood, Money & Power” theory personally. He would have put his own life at risk in a crossfire scenario riding in the motorcade. I’m also skeptical of any theory that is sourced from a single person with a possible agenda (and I find McClellan to be particularly untrustworthy), whereas with the CIA/Mafia/Cubans angle you can find compelling evidence from endless sources and they are all pretty consistent. The book is also pretty light on evidence and relies on lots of unsourced information.

Headhunter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:17 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 11:58 pm Barr McClellan served as one of LBJ's attorneys in the mid 60s up until his death. If his book is to be believed, Edward Clark organized the assassination through LBJs request and did it for around 6 million dollars. When Barr worked under Clark, he claimed there was a "Penthouse" area in the upper floors of the Clark, Thomas and Winters legal offices in downtown Austin that harbored the Johnson-Clark legal files. The Penthouse area was off limits to everyone, including their highest ranked attorneys. At the time of McClellan's allegations and eventual book release, he claimed if any files should be unsealed to reveal the most truth about the Kennedy Assassination, it would be the Johnson-Clark legal files, but even above that, the psychiatric records of LBJ in the years before his death. They hired a private psychiatrist to deal with Johnson's guilt about the involvement and paid him a million dollars to ensure secrecy. Definitely some juicy shit if he's speaking truth.

I’m not a believer in the “Blood, Money & Power” theory personally. He would have put his own life at risk in a crossfire scenario riding in the motorcade. I’m also skeptical of any theory that is sourced from a single person with a possible agenda (and I find McClellan to be particularly untrustworthy), whereas with the CIA/Mafia/Cubans angle you can find compelling evidence from endless sources and they are all pretty consistent. The book is also pretty light on evidence and relies on lots of unsourced information.

Barr indicated LBJ was the mastermind and I just don't find that to be the case, but I am definitely convinced LBJ was involved to a large degree. The most compelling of evidence is the fingerprint found on cardboard in the sniper's nest belonging to Malcolm Wallace, who LBJ helped keep off death row for the murder of John Kinser. I think he got a five year suspended sentence or something. Billy Sol Estes opened up that huge can of worms when he went on trial for extortion in the 80s. He offered information against LBJ in exchange for a lighter sentence, which was ultimately revoked, but you can follow his paper trail and it has every indication that LBJ at minimum knew about the assassination and helped to cover it up.

I tend to lean toward the Clark theory as opposed to the mafia being the larger players for the simple fact that the motorcade route was altered. The answers are there. There's a lot of truth mixed in with everything and we basically have the answer somewhere in all these theories.

Have you read Crossfire? Jim Marrs identified these little yellow splotches of paint on the curb that you can see in the Zapruder film if you look close enough. Each splotch is bright yellow and about 3 feet long. I only remember him identifying two and when I took a road trip and was in Dallas back in June, I visited the Dallas area and Dealey Plaza for three days and there are still faint but thick and prominent traces of the yellow paint. I walked along the curb and actually found three splotches. I rewatched the Zapruder film and there is indeed a third splotch of paint. Totally wild to be there in person.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:52 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:47 pm

Headhunter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:31 pm And you can take the last bit directly from my professional experiences. I had both wealthy conservative and wealthy liberal clients (you know who one of them is). They both talk about the majority of conservatives like they are disgusting zoo animals.

Hey, you know what. Your inside sources said Rodgers to Denver was already a done deal but somehow he's a god damn Jet.

I never discuss politics with clients. Wealthy or otherwise.

You should definitely keep your Trump-Vance banner hidden in zoom meetings.

Jason wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:15 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:52 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:47 pm

Headhunter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:31 pm And you can take the last bit directly from my professional experiences. I had both wealthy conservative and wealthy liberal clients (you know who one of them is). They both talk about the majority of conservatives like they are disgusting zoo animals.

Hey, you know what. Your inside sources said Rodgers to Denver was already a done deal but somehow he's a god damn Jet.

I never discuss politics with clients. Wealthy or otherwise.

You should definitely keep your Trump-Vance banner hidden in zoom meetings.

I hate the current GOP period!
I didn't too much care for them during the Bush Era either but their current cult like mindset (MAGA) is insufferable.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:46 am I hate the current GOP period!
I didn't too much care for them during the Bush Era either but their current cult like mindset (MAGA) is insufferable.

I think most people in the GOP don't like the Trump era, either. There has been a shift in the paradigm ever since Trump became the nominee in 2016 and the turn against Trump by many members of the party seemed to be the tell for me that both parties on opposite ends are likely bought by the establishment.

I am definitely a believer in Trump. I don't necessarily see where the movement has shown signs of a cult mentality, but more so unity in restoring good and honest values within the nation. And I say this fully aware that Trump could easily be full of shit and playing into the minds of disenfranchised right-leaning voters, but he hasn't given me reason to doubt yet. A second term is generally the most telling when it comes to the true intentions of a president. So we shall see (if he does get elected).

Jason wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:15 am

Lazerus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:46 am I hate the current GOP period!
I didn't too much care for them during the Bush Era either but their current cult like mindset (MAGA) is insufferable.

I think most people in the GOP don't like the Trump era, either. There has been a shift in the paradigm ever since Trump became the nominee in 2016 and the turn against Trump by many members of the party seemed to be the tell for me that both parties on opposite ends are likely bought by the establishment.

I am definitely a believer in Trump. I don't necessarily see where the movement has shown signs of a cult mentality, but more so unity in restoring good and honest values within the nation. And I say this fully aware that Trump could easily be full of shit and playing into the minds of disenfranchised right-leaning voters, but he hasn't given me reason to doubt yet. A second term is generally the most telling when it comes to the true intentions of a president. So we shall see (if he does get elected).

It's not just Trump, it's the mindset of a portion of his followers and actions taken by the GOP in recent years that have me angry. The reversal of Roe v Wade is just one example. You say the belief is in restoring good and honest values to the nation. What values are you referring to exactly? Good and honest? those are subjective. And who decides what values are honest and which ones are not? That's a loaded discussion in itself. And yes it is a cult mindset with some of his followers, look back at the capital sacking in 2021. If that's not an example of a cult mentality turned violent then I don't know what the fuck is!

Lazerus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:18 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:15 am

Lazerus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:46 am I hate the current GOP period!
I didn't too much care for them during the Bush Era either but their current cult like mindset (MAGA) is insufferable.

I think most people in the GOP don't like the Trump era, either. There has been a shift in the paradigm ever since Trump became the nominee in 2016 and the turn against Trump by many members of the party seemed to be the tell for me that both parties on opposite ends are likely bought by the establishment.

I am definitely a believer in Trump. I don't necessarily see where the movement has shown signs of a cult mentality, but more so unity in restoring good and honest values within the nation. And I say this fully aware that Trump could easily be full of shit and playing into the minds of disenfranchised right-leaning voters, but he hasn't given me reason to doubt yet. A second term is generally the most telling when it comes to the true intentions of a president. So we shall see (if he does get elected).

It's not just Trump, it's the mindset of a portion of his followers and actions taken by the GOP in recent years that have me angry. The reversal of Roe v Wade is just one example. You say the belief is in restoring good and honest values to the nation. What values are you referring to exactly? Good and honest? those are subjective. And who decides what values are honest and which ones are not? That's a loaded discussion in itself. And yes it is a cult mindset with some of his followers, look back at the capital sacking in 2021. If that's not an example of a cult mentality turned violent then I don't know what the fuck is!

I've weeded out my indifferences toward the mindset of people who support politicians I don't align my ideas with politically. And I also don't allow mob mentality to interfere with my interpretation of a politician's honesty in the pursuit of truth. You won't catch me anywhere near a political rally or anything resembling it, regardless of how strongly opinionated I may be on any of the subject matter.

Roe v. Wade being overturned was a good thing, in my opinion. The democrats and media used the spin that the Supreme Court is taking away a woman's right to choose when in reality they took away the federal government's stranglehold over a family's decision and relinquished it to the states. A child is the most beautiful thing on the planet and they've reduced babies to a rights issue. There is a glaring double standard that is never mentioned when it comes to the abortion issue and that is the father's say. It has become commonplace in today's world that only the mother should be able to choose whether or not to have the baby, while the father is forced to pay alimony if she does choose to carry the child. Unless this was rape, neither scenario is the business of the government. If it is 100% the mother's choice, then alimony should be 100% the father's choice. There are countless scenarios in which a woman becomes pregnant and we've been conditioned to think that the federal government should be involved in what goes on in every scenario of the bedroom. Our responsibilities are more important than our rights. A woman or a couple choosing to get an abortion is none of the federal government's business whatsoever. So that's kind of where my "good an honest values" quote came from. Responsibility before rights.

The reality to me is that the election in 2020 was almost certainly stolen for the democrats. There are photos and videos that youtube and google are suppressing in their algorithms that show poll watchers being locked out of the counting process, windows being boarded up and people pulling out boxes from underneath their tables and continuing the count in the middle of the night. If this was a fully free and fair election, then transparency is absolutely mandatory as it always has been. Never in our nation's history has it taken months to count votes except in 2020. The state of Pennsylvania in 2020 was called for Biden by a margin of 80,555 votes. Months after the election, there were 121,240 more votes than registered voters in the state of Pennsylvania, and this is according to the Pennsylvania Department of State. Pennsylvania is legally not allowed to certify an election based on this discrepancy, especially of this magnitude and it was certified anyway. Corrupt elites in swing states are blatantly ignoring state and federal laws and nothing is being done. The founding fathers would have been stacking bodies on day two of the counting process, let alone waiting until January to see whether an election was certified, so the fact that thousands of people "sacked the capitol" after gates were opened and people had to be encouraged to go in is the sign of a less than violent cult, if that's how we want to refer to them.

Tulsi (unsurprisingly) endorsed Trump earlier today.

Jason wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:14 pm

Headhunter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:17 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 11:58 pm Barr McClellan served as one of LBJ's attorneys in the mid 60s up until his death. If his book is to be believed, Edward Clark organized the assassination through LBJs request and did it for around 6 million dollars. When Barr worked under Clark, he claimed there was a "Penthouse" area in the upper floors of the Clark, Thomas and Winters legal offices in downtown Austin that harbored the Johnson-Clark legal files. The Penthouse area was off limits to everyone, including their highest ranked attorneys. At the time of McClellan's allegations and eventual book release, he claimed if any files should be unsealed to reveal the most truth about the Kennedy Assassination, it would be the Johnson-Clark legal files, but even above that, the psychiatric records of LBJ in the years before his death. They hired a private psychiatrist to deal with Johnson's guilt about the involvement and paid him a million dollars to ensure secrecy. Definitely some juicy shit if he's speaking truth.

I’m not a believer in the “Blood, Money & Power” theory personally. He would have put his own life at risk in a crossfire scenario riding in the motorcade. I’m also skeptical of any theory that is sourced from a single person with a possible agenda (and I find McClellan to be particularly untrustworthy), whereas with the CIA/Mafia/Cubans angle you can find compelling evidence from endless sources and they are all pretty consistent. The book is also pretty light on evidence and relies on lots of unsourced information.

Barr indicated LBJ was the mastermind and I just don't find that to be the case, but I am definitely convinced LBJ was involved to a large degree. The most compelling of evidence is the fingerprint found on cardboard in the sniper's nest belonging to Malcolm Wallace, who LBJ helped keep off death row for the murder of John Kinser. I think he got a five year suspended sentence or something. Billy Sol Estes opened up that huge can of worms when he went on trial for extortion in the 80s. He offered information against LBJ in exchange for a lighter sentence, which was ultimately revoked, but you can follow his paper trail and it has every indication that LBJ at minimum knew about the assassination and helped to cover it up.

I tend to lean toward the Clark theory as opposed to the mafia being the larger players for the simple fact that the motorcade route was altered. The answers are there. There's a lot of truth mixed in with everything and we basically have the answer somewhere in all these theories.

Have you read Crossfire? Jim Marrs identified these little yellow splotches of paint on the curb that you can see in the Zapruder film if you look close enough. Each splotch is bright yellow and about 3 feet long. I only remember him identifying two and when I took a road trip and was in Dallas back in June, I visited the Dallas area and Dealey Plaza for three days and there are still faint but thick and prominent traces of the yellow paint. I walked along the curb and actually found three splotches. I rewatched the Zapruder film and there is indeed a third splotch of paint. Totally wild to be there in person.

I personally think LBJ knew immediately what happened and knew he needed to play ball. I just don’t think anyone is signing off on being a sitting duck in a crossfire if they were in on the plan. In 1967, he privately told an aide he believed the CIA had been involved. Curious if Robert Caro’s final LBJ book reveals any of his thinking, if Caro is still alive to finish it.

I don’t think the Mafia were the largest players, i think the CIA was. And I think that extends into the general national security apparatus, as there needed to be some level of coordination with Secret Service and likely the FBI as well. Something like that could be compartmentalized pretty easily and you only need a handful of links in that chain to make sure everyone is on the same page. But I do think the plot came out of the CIA/Mafia/Cuban exile milieu after the Bay of Pigs.

I haven’t read Jim Marrs but I’m decently familiar with some of the material. Outside of Anthony Summers’ book everything I’ve read is post-early 90s declassifications as there was so much more information available to comb through. My favorites I’ve read include:

The Last Investigation - Gaeton Fonzi
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott
Oswald and the CIA - John Newman
The Man Who Knew Too Much - Dick Russell
Destiny Betrayed - Jim DiEugenio
JFK and the Unspeakable - James Douglass

“Coup in Dallas” may interest you as it’s the only book I’m aware of that makes claim to naming the exact conspirators, backed with evidence. The problem is the evidence comes in the form of the scribbled notes in an intelligence operative’s datebook from 1963 and it’s probably never going to be authenticated one way or the other. It’s either the closest we’ll ever get to the truth or a complete fraud. But the context connecting the individuals named does absolutely line up so if it is a fraud, the person who did either knew the people involved or did a lot of exhaustive research long before anyone connected the dots.

That context adds an international dimension to the story, exposing what was essentially a post-WW2 right wing underworld linking the usual CIA/Mafia/Cuban exile connection to escaped Nazis, other European fascists and Texas oilmen who had mutual interests and investments. Even if the datebooks are forged, the context of it all is very real and makes it worth reading. It has long been contended that at least one of the shooters was a French assassin from a right wing terrorist group that targeted DeGaulle, and one of the key players named Otto Skorzeny was a Nazi commando who was later used to train assassination operations to Green Berets and other US military personnel headed for Vietnam.