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Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:41 pm If you look at Trump interviews over the last 40+ years his opinion has largely remained the same: Taxes are out of control, politicians are weak and are allowing other nations to rip us off. He said if it ever got so bad he might consider running, then he did, and they turned against him. Or maybe he turned against them. Either way you could see the shift in opinion the moment he decided to run against the establishment. People that loved him suddenly hated him. They made wild claims out of the blue. Just didn't add up. I thought he was running as a joke like many of us did but seeing the media focus all their attention to him made me really pay attention and it seems to me he's in it for the good of the country. Perhaps to satisfy his ego as well, but I'm not really concerned about that part.

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:51 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:47 pm

zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:35 am was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.

Obamacare was a Republican plan. That's why it's absolutely shit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ ... obe-215112

Universal healtcare for all. Where do we get the money? Wealth caps and cutting the military budget, to start with. Easy solution.

How about opening up the market to allow freedom of choice in healthcare and a call for the drastic lowering of prices within the pharmaceutical industry? I don't want to see America willingly disarm itself and become vulnerable when we can easily target the trillion dollar industry of the medical apparatus that has no interest in seeing us get healthy, but rather keep us on their drugs and continue to pay them for life. Target the industry, not the taxpayer.

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:51 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:47 pm

zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:35 am was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.

Obamacare was a Republican plan. That's why it's absolutely shit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ ... obe-215112

Universal healtcare for all. Where do we get the money? Wealth caps and cutting the military budget, to start with. Easy solution.

How about opening up the market to allow freedom of choice in healthcare and a call for the drastic lowering of prices within the pharmaceutical industry? I don't want to see America willingly disarm itself and become vulnerable when we can easily target the trillion dollar industry of the medical apparatus that has no interest in seeing us get healthy, but rather keep us on their drugs and continue to pay them for life. Target the industry, not the taxpayer.

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:45 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:54 am

Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:43 pm Alrighty. If that's all you got from that.

I'll have to take your own personal diagnosis of Trump with a grain of salt, though.

I am starting to understand why so many of the OG posters are no longer around here. Topics such of politics are highly divisive, it has nothing to do with Horror and should have never been allowed on the forum in the first place.

I don't doubt it's divisive, but I err toward freedom of discussion as opposed to a blanket banning of the topic. God knows I have strong feelings (third party 2024), and I've said some things I'm not proud of, but ignoring the topic entirely seems potentially unwise.

I guess I see it this way - I'm a socialist (and to be clear, an anti-capitalist who refuses to vote for Democrats because 99% of Democrats are capitalists), and I'd rather be able to talk/argue to conservatives here as opposed to not having the chance to find any common ground.

It's also worth mentioning that most of us live in this country, and we're becoming incredibly divided. If we can't talk politics here in good faith, that doesn't bode well for the country as a whole (the fact that I find this country among the worst in the world is beside the point).

Obviously I agree to some extent - for a long time, no one was talking politics here, and it popped back up - but the option to talk politics should always be open. Just my views, of course.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:56 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:51 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:47 pm

zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:35 am was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.

Obamacare was a Republican plan. That's why it's absolutely shit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ ... obe-215112

Universal healtcare for all. Where do we get the money? Wealth caps and cutting the military budget, to start with. Easy solution.

How about opening up the market to allow freedom of choice in healthcare and a call for the drastic lowering of prices within the pharmaceutical industry? I don't want to see America willingly disarm itself and become vulnerable when we can easily target the trillion dollar industry of the medical apparatus that has no interest in seeing us get healthy, but rather keep us on their drugs and continue to pay them for life. Target the industry, not the taxpayer.

This right here! Now you are speaking my language.

Wealth caps are a form of discrimination. The government should never be able to tell me or anyone how much money I can make. Fuck that!

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:53 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:41 pm If you look at Trump interviews over the last 40+ years his opinion has largely remained the same: Taxes are out of control, politicians are weak and are allowing other nations to rip us off. He said if it ever got so bad he might consider running, then he did, and they turned against him. Or maybe he turned against them. Either way you could see the shift in opinion the moment he decided to run against the establishment. People that loved him suddenly hated him. They made wild claims out of the blue. Just didn't add up. I thought he was running as a joke like many of us did but seeing the media focus all their attention to him made me really pay attention and it seems to me he's in it for the good of the country. Perhaps to satisfy his ego as well, but I'm not really concerned about that part.

Trump goes off the rails a lot and even sounds unhinged at times. I don't know if that is just his personality or what. Now I admit that I enjoyed watching him punk the reporters at times lol. Anyway, he often speaks of random crazy shit like recently his statement about immigrants eating cats. WTF! That was random and just disgusting. That being said he is not wrong about our broken immigration system. Now as someone who is from a border state I will say it is a very big problem but building a wall won't solve it. Fixing the immigration system is the solution. How that looks or goes is not up to me. He is right about other countries ripping us off. About taxes, which ones? Federal, state, local? or all of the above? I'm unclear on which ones he's speaking of. My point here is he is not wrong about some of the things he talks about but his deliver is often off, comes across as aggressive or even delusional. I try not to be too critical because it's probably just his personality.

Both sides Blue and Red brand the other as evil. This is a part of the problem. I respect you are passionate about what you believe in, we all are to an extent.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:01 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:45 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:54 am

Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:43 pm Alrighty. If that's all you got from that.

I'll have to take your own personal diagnosis of Trump with a grain of salt, though.

I am starting to understand why so many of the OG posters are no longer around here. Topics such of politics are highly divisive, it has nothing to do with Horror and should have never been allowed on the forum in the first place.

Obviously I agree to some extent - for a long time, no one was talking politics here, and it popped back up - but the option to talk politics should always be open. Just my views, of course.

I respect this. You've always seemed chill when discussing such things from what I have seen. And we have all said things on here in the past that we regent. (Myself probably more than you)

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:01 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:56 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:51 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:47 pm

zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:35 am was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.

Obamacare was a Republican plan. That's why it's absolutely shit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ ... obe-215112

Universal healtcare for all. Where do we get the money? Wealth caps and cutting the military budget, to start with. Easy solution.

How about opening up the market to allow freedom of choice in healthcare and a call for the drastic lowering of prices within the pharmaceutical industry? I don't want to see America willingly disarm itself and become vulnerable when we can easily target the trillion dollar industry of the medical apparatus that has no interest in seeing us get healthy, but rather keep us on their drugs and continue to pay them for life. Target the industry, not the taxpayer.

This right here! Now you are speaking my language.

Wealth caps are a form of discrimination. The government should never be able to tell me or anyone how much money I can make. Fuck that!

If someone already has 50 million dollars, I feel no shame taxing everything above that 100% until no one's without a home and food. Since most of us are unlikely to get to 50 million dollars, I don't see the problem. *shrugs*

Then again, I am on the far-left, so I don't expect my hopes and dreams to hold much credence here.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:18 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:01 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:56 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:51 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:47 pm

zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:35 am was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.

Obamacare was a Republican plan. That's why it's absolutely shit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ ... obe-215112

Universal healtcare for all. Where do we get the money? Wealth caps and cutting the military budget, to start with. Easy solution.

How about opening up the market to allow freedom of choice in healthcare and a call for the drastic lowering of prices within the pharmaceutical industry? I don't want to see America willingly disarm itself and become vulnerable when we can easily target the trillion dollar industry of the medical apparatus that has no interest in seeing us get healthy, but rather keep us on their drugs and continue to pay them for life. Target the industry, not the taxpayer.

This right here! Now you are speaking my language.

Wealth caps are a form of discrimination. The government should never be able to tell me or anyone how much money I can make. Fuck that!

If someone already has 50 million dollars, I feel no shame taxing everything above that 100% until no one's without a home and food. Since most of us are unlikely to get to 50 million dollars, I don't see the problem. *shrugs*

Then again, I am on the far-left, so I don't expect my hopes and dreams to hold much credence here.

As someone who was once homeless and went from that nothing to where I am today. I have a very big problem with that concept. taxing someone 100% with a net worth of $50 million or more simply because of that number is by definition discrimination. Secondly if I can pick myself up and make something of myself by working my ass off then so can you and anyone else.

Now I do acknowledge there are people who are born into or face certain hardships at no fault of their own such as disabilities etc. I am not talking about those people.

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:06 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:53 pm

Jason wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 12:41 pm If you look at Trump interviews over the last 40+ years his opinion has largely remained the same: Taxes are out of control, politicians are weak and are allowing other nations to rip us off. He said if it ever got so bad he might consider running, then he did, and they turned against him. Or maybe he turned against them. Either way you could see the shift in opinion the moment he decided to run against the establishment. People that loved him suddenly hated him. They made wild claims out of the blue. Just didn't add up. I thought he was running as a joke like many of us did but seeing the media focus all their attention to him made me really pay attention and it seems to me he's in it for the good of the country. Perhaps to satisfy his ego as well, but I'm not really concerned about that part.

Trump goes off the rails a lot and even sounds unhinged at times. I don't know if that is just his personality or what. Now I admit that I enjoyed watching him punk the reporters at times lol. Anyway, he often speaks of random crazy shit like recently his statement about immigrants eating cats. WTF! That was random and just disgusting. That being said he is not wrong about our broken immigration system. Now as someone who is from a border state I will say it is a very big problem but building a wall won't solve it. Fixing the immigration system is the solution. How that looks or goes is not up to me. He is right about other countries ripping us off. About taxes, which ones? Federal, state, local? or all of the above? I'm unclear on which ones he's speaking of. My point here is he is not wrong about some of the things he talks about but his deliver is often off, comes across as aggressive or even delusional. I try not to be too critical because it's probably just his personality.

Both sides Blue and Red brand the other as evil. This is a part of the problem. I respect you are passionate about what you believe in, we all are to an extent.

The Haitians eating animals is a real thing. The most notable is the guy calling 911 reporting the Haitian migrants catching and eating geese, which is a $250 fine and a possible 30 days in jail. What's being ignored are the tons of people in Springfield reporting their animals missing as soon as Haitian migrants moved into their apartment complex. You can't technically prove the migrants took their pets and ate them, but it is a strange coincidence and we can't just say it never happened.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Taking someone's money isn't moral unless that money is gained illegally. So yeah we won't agree here.

If you hate the US so much why don't you leave? Just curious.

Making it big means different things to different people.

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:35 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Taking someone's money isn't moral unless that money is gained illegally. So yeah we won't agree here.

If you hate the US so much why don't you leave? Just curious.

Making it big means different things to different people.

Two reasons:

1) It's not like it's exceptionally easy to leave. I have about $500 total in my bank account, so I don't think I can skip off to Norway and hope to get by (and that's under the assumption that Norway would even accept me; I don't know they're immigration requirements).

2) More importantly, I live here. While I don't think that this country will change, I do know that I have every right to fight for the changes I believe in. It's like a Republican asking a Democrat in a deep red state "Well, if you don't like our anti-abortion, pro-cop policies, why don't you move to California, you hippie?" That's not a solution, that's fully giving up on this country. Even if I had the option, I'm not sure that I would.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:42 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:35 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Taking someone's money isn't moral unless that money is gained illegally. So yeah we won't agree here.

If you hate the US so much why don't you leave? Just curious.

Making it big means different things to different people.

Two reasons:

1) It's not like it's exceptionally easy to leave. I have about $500 total in my bank account, so I don't think I can skip off to Norway and hope to get by (and that's under the assumption that Norway would even accept me; I don't know they're immigration requirements).

2) More importantly, I live here. While I don't think that this country will change, I do know that I have every right to fight for the changes I believe in. It's like a Republican asking a Democrat in a deep red state "Well, if you don't like our anti-abortion, pro-cop policies, why don't you move to California, you hippie?" That's not a solution, that's fully giving up on this country. Even if I had the option, I'm not sure that I would.

I respect all that and you are right that running isn't the solution.

I agree some changes need to be made but extremes (on either side) won't help in the long run. I won't support wealth caps but I will support cutting a tone of the tax loopholes. I have always voice support for UBI and Universal healthcare. I am a gun owner but I support commonsense laws such as red flag laws but not gun bans. I am pro-choice on abortion, I believe religion has no place in public education or government, I believe the immigration system needs to be overhauled, and I do not support defunding the police. I also believe we need to stop sending all this aid overseas and instead use that money to fix problems here.

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:48 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:42 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:35 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Taking someone's money isn't moral unless that money is gained illegally. So yeah we won't agree here.

If you hate the US so much why don't you leave? Just curious.

Making it big means different things to different people.

Two reasons:

1) It's not like it's exceptionally easy to leave. I have about $500 total in my bank account, so I don't think I can skip off to Norway and hope to get by (and that's under the assumption that Norway would even accept me; I don't know they're immigration requirements).

2) More importantly, I live here. While I don't think that this country will change, I do know that I have every right to fight for the changes I believe in. It's like a Republican asking a Democrat in a deep red state "Well, if you don't like our anti-abortion, pro-cop policies, why don't you move to California, you hippie?" That's not a solution, that's fully giving up on this country. Even if I had the option, I'm not sure that I would.

I respect all that and you are right that running isn't the solution.

I agree some changes need to be made but extremes (on either side) won't help in the long run. I won't support wealth caps but I will support cutting a tone of the tax loopholes. I have always voice support for UBI and Universal healthcare. I am a gun owner but I support commonsense laws such as red flag laws but not gun bans. I am pro-choice on abortion, I believe religion has no place in public education or government, I believe the immigration system needs to be overhauled, and I do not support defunding the police. I also believe we need to stop sending all this aid overseas and instead use that money to fix problems here.

I agree with most of that (and strongly disagree with some of them ). The question then becomes how best to implement those policies, and then realize that neither the GOP nor the Democrats has a vested interest in fixing most of those problems, and then feel despair.

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:53 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:48 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:42 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:35 pm

Lazerus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigsaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:20 pm
You can call it "discrimination," but I'd call it "moral."

To me, wealth caps make obvious sense. especially given how absolutely atrocious this country is, but because so many Americans think that they'll
"make it big" some day, the very idea offends them. Hey, at least we can agree on cutting the military budget by at least 50%, amiright???

Taking someone's money isn't moral unless that money is gained illegally. So yeah we won't agree here.

If you hate the US so much why don't you leave? Just curious.

Making it big means different things to different people.

Two reasons:

1) It's not like it's exceptionally easy to leave. I have about $500 total in my bank account, so I don't think I can skip off to Norway and hope to get by (and that's under the assumption that Norway would even accept me; I don't know they're immigration requirements).

2) More importantly, I live here. While I don't think that this country will change, I do know that I have every right to fight for the changes I believe in. It's like a Republican asking a Democrat in a deep red state "Well, if you don't like our anti-abortion, pro-cop policies, why don't you move to California, you hippie?" That's not a solution, that's fully giving up on this country. Even if I had the option, I'm not sure that I would.

I respect all that and you are right that running isn't the solution.

I agree some changes need to be made but extremes (on either side) won't help in the long run. I won't support wealth caps but I will support cutting a tone of the tax loopholes. I have always voice support for UBI and Universal healthcare. I am a gun owner but I support commonsense laws such as red flag laws but not gun bans. I am pro-choice on abortion, I believe religion has no place in public education or government, I believe the immigration system needs to be overhauled, and I do not support defunding the police. I also believe we need to stop sending all this aid overseas and instead use that money to fix problems here.

I agree with most of that (and strongly disagree with some of them ). The question then becomes how best to implement those policies, and then realize that neither the GOP nor the Democrats has a vested interest in fixing most of those problems, and then feel despair.

It starts with bringing down the Military Industrial Complex, Big Oil, Big Tech, and Big Pharma. To do that we need to tackle the big three (Vanguard Group, Blackrock Inc., and State Street Corporation). These three investment firms own the big controlling interest in all of the major corporations in those industries and thus insert their will on them which effects everyone and everything else. This is where Sanders was right about the system. If you want real change then it begins with breaking the necks of those three firms. It wouldn't be easy but it can (and should) be done.

Headhunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:54 pm FWIW I don’t think politics is the primary reason people have left, I think general life stuff for everyone is. And it’s really been a gradual decline in activity over a decade, tbh it’s really picked up again recently and that’s cool to see. Jason and I had the most contentious political arguments of any members here and we get along now.