The Substance (with Spoilers galore)

[Jason]

Last warning, for those who haven't seen it, turn back now.

Here's my glaring question that made the movie a little less impactful: Elizabeth Sparkle (Demi Moore) is going through the shit of being too old and less desirable to the audience and she gets shit canned from her decades long run as a prime time aerobics instructor, so she does this experimental drug that allows her to re-animate herself into a a "better model" version and names herself Sue (Margaret Qualley) where she is now young and hot, but the catch is that she has to split a week's time between her original body and her new body. Here's what threw me for a loop: Eventually her two selves have a conflict with each other because Sue hates going back to Elizabeth and Eilzabeth is having issues because Sue is getting all the glory and taking too much time which is causing her original body to age even worse. But the big moment in the movie that kind of derailed the movie a bit was when Elizabeth was holed up in her apartment watching sexy Sue being interviewed on Late Nite television. Sue threw shade at Elizabeth and Elizabeth couldn't believe what she said. But how could this be? They are supposed to be the same entity. If Elizabeth and Sue are separate entities with separate minds or whatever, then there would be absolutely no reason for Elizabeth to ever continue going back to the younger body when she herself cannot experience the glory she sought after in the first place.

[Tiggnutz]

That's the conflict they are the same physically but not consciously and so what seemed like a great way to regain her youth wasn't helping her mentally or emotionally. When she does come to realize this she is such a broken human that for awhile she's even willing to keep going just knowing some part of her was still getting attention and validation. She does get pushed to far and tries to terminate but the thought of her just being herself is so unbearable she can't go through with it. That's how I saw it and Demi was outstanding portraying that person

[Jason]

That's the conflict they are the same physically but not consciously and so what seemed like a great way to regain her youth wasn't helping her mentally or emotionally. When she does come to realize this she is such a broken human that for awhile she's even willing to keep going just knowing some part of her was still getting attention and validation. She does get pushed to far and tries to terminate but the thought of her just being herself is so unbearable she can't go through with it. That's how I saw it and Demi was outstanding portraying that person

I think it would have been better if they were the same consciously, but not physically, and she basically grows another personality that she develops through her youthfulness and experiencing the world desiring her again and then that personality slowly begins to conflict with her original older self when she has to go back. But the thing that really bugged me is that there really is no point in going through with it whatsoever if you're not going to even experience it at all. The entire point of the substance is to experience a "younger, better version of yourself" but she doesn't experience it at all. You basically commit suicide every week for one week only to wake up to some other dead chick next to you living in your apartment while you're dead. LMAO. She doesn't experience it, but she still continues.

She does get pushed to far and tries to terminate but the thought of her just being herself is so unbearable she can't go through with it.

That's the main part that just bugged the shit out of me. The way Elizabeth reacts to herself during her week makes total sense if she is also living for the week as Sue. But she apparently never experiences what it is even like to be Sue. She is always herself. She is never Sue and she never experiences Sue. She dies for a week so somebody hotter can live in her apartment and then she starts hating herself more? It's wild. lol.

Still though, even with the flaws it got a 4/5 stars from me and I am not at all generous with stars.

[Tiggnutz]

Something that I was questioning was are we to believe Sue just created a hidden room doing all the construction herself in a week?

[Tiggnutz]

Something I thought was brilliant was if you notice the complete disregard they have for each other even though they are supposed to be one. They never move the other self off the floor or even cover there naked body up it's just total lack of empathy or compassion.

[Jason]

Something that I was questioning was are we to believe Sue just created a hidden room doing all the construction herself in a week?

I forgot about that. I'm not addressing that trap because it would just make me a sexist pig.

[Tiggnutz]

Something that I was questioning was are we to believe Sue just created a hidden room doing all the construction herself in a week?

I forgot about that. I'm not addressing that trap because it would just make me a sexist pig.

Did she somehow know that space was there?

[Jason]

Something I thought was brilliant was if you notice the complete disregard they have for each other even though they are supposed to be one. They never move the other self off the floor or even cover there naked body up it's just total lack of empathy or compassion.

Yeah, that was good. I was expecting Elizabeth to preserve Sue in a better way like a small bed or something while the Sue version would leave Elizabeth on the ground. But that again ties to the issue I have with Elizabeth not even experiencing any of it. Which I thought was the whole point. lol.

[Jason]

Something that I was questioning was are we to believe Sue just created a hidden room doing all the construction herself in a week?

I forgot about that. I'm not addressing that trap because it would just make me a sexist pig.

Did she somehow know that space was there?

Sue was a building superintendent in her previous life. One knock on a tile wall and she knows the exact dimensions of the space that's behind it. Which is how she knew to knock it down.

[Tiggnutz]

Also thought Dennis Quaid was great as a sleazy douche

[Jason]

Also thought Dennis Quaid was great as a sleazy douche

Yeah. And I feel like the film had a few obvious nods to Re-Animator (green syringe) and Basket Case (final monster scene)

[Reign in Blood]

You guys are touching on exactly why I'm torn on this one. Obviously it's got a lot of cool shit, but some of it is just fucking stupid. But I think they were going full 80's homage schlock with Basket Case etc. A lot of is just script, first off, Demi only got fired, her whole life didn't go to complete shit or anything, no reason to dive down this extreme rabbit hole, bad sell there imo. But then absolutely yes as Jason said, why in the fuck are you doing this if you don't get anything out of it? Worse Demi had to do all the legwork for it. If the balance was respected, I could maybe see at first getting a kick out of seeing her young version be successful while she gets fat and sassy on the off week, but once Sue started fucking around, fuck that. But it's part of it's drug addiction allegory.

And don't get me started on that fucking secret room bullshit, she ReAnimated into a god damn professional engineer, welder, fucking tile expert, electrician, you name it.

Dennis Quaid was a surprise because I thought he was all religious now. Great performances from all. You guys were right, Margaret went to summer camp and came back... different!

Basket Case finale was dope though! Dug the Cronenberg and Henenlotter and Gordon of it all.

[Reign in Blood]

I love that Margaret's mom is in a very similar movie with much different results in one of my favorites, Multiplicity. Shows what happens when chicks vs. dudes get a hold of stuff! They even do a copy of a copy.

[Reign in Blood]

Ah, I didn't think of the Picture of Dorian Gray influence while watching.

[Jason]

Your thoughts on it are basically my thoughts on it. You gotta suspended a lot of reality in your head to make it work but Demi just sitting there taking it makes zero sense and brings it down a little, but the fucked up 80s of it all is what makes it work for me. High 3.5 or Low 4/5, for me.

And holy shit, Margaret Qualley's mom is Andi MacDowell. I either totally forgot or had no idea, but I can definitely see the resemblance in the face. And Multiplicity was the shit.

[Tiggnutz]

Elizabeth's entire self worth was tied to others (Men) perception of her looks. The allegory would be the psychological damage women experience trying to meet unachievable standards society set for them when it comes to their looks. Clearly Demi has gotten a lot of work done so that must of been weird for her

[Reign in Blood]

Elizabeth's entire self worth was tied to others (Men) perception of her looks. The allegory would be the psychological damage women experience trying to meet unachievable standards society set for them when it comes to their looks.

*spits out Coke* What, Jiggy is that you? Did you birth a young Jig, Tigg?

[Tiggnutz]

Elizabeth's entire self worth was tied to others (Men) perception of her looks. The allegory would be the psychological damage women experience trying to meet unachievable standards society set for them when it comes to their looks.

*spits out Coke* What, Jiggy is that you? Did you birth a young Jig, Tigg?

If she made it to 50 than she got 20 more years than most women in the entertainment industry

[zombie]

it's dis-associative. elizabeth and sue are the same entity internally. but sue was getting all of the attention that elizabeth wanted for herself. she may have felt validation on some level, but she was still bitter because she wasn't living it for herself. to the point that bitterness overwhelmed her and drowned out any validation she may have been feeling along with sue. and sue equally grew to resent and disregard the other side of herself and didn't seem to feel a lot of guilt or regret in doing so. again, because of disassociation between the two of them.

that said, i think it's more style over substance. and there was definitely enough splatter and gory body horror to go around.

[Reign in Blood]

i think it's more style over... substance.

*ba-dum-tsh* Ohhh, sick burn.