Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:40 pm
The fact people try to spin these shooters as disaffected Trump voters or Republicans is a mind-boggling reach. Who cares who or what he was ever affiliated with? Both guys tried to kill Trump. Not Harris or Biden. Trump. And people, including me, half-expected and predicted this would happen around election time and it's happened twice now. The simplest view on this is there are either two lone nuts who tried to kill Trump two months apart from each other during election season, or they were both left-wing, CIA adjacent mercenaries who went 0-for-2. Hopefully the third time is not the charm.
What I find mind boggling is people who can't see what Trump really is. Instead they drink to Kool-Aid, burry their heads in the sand and ignore facts when its right in front of their faces. Robert, in a way you remind me of my cousin. Great guy with his heart in the right place and all but at times he can get tunnel vision. Trump is an egotistical piece of shit who is way in over his head. More importantly he doesn't care about you, or any of his other supporters he only cares about himself. Classic definition of a narcissist... everything is all about him.
I am glad he is ok and wasn't hurt or worse and as I stated earlier I do not support political violence of any kind. Hopefully there are no more incidents like this going forward.
Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:40 pm
The fact people try to spin these shooters as disaffected Trump voters or Republicans is a mind-boggling reach. Who cares who or what he was ever affiliated with? Both guys tried to kill Trump. Not Harris or Biden. Trump. And people, including me, half-expected and predicted this would happen around election time and it's happened twice now. The simplest view on this is there are either two lone nuts who tried to kill Trump two months apart from each other during election season, or they were both left-wing, CIA adjacent mercenaries who went 0-for-2. Hopefully the third time is not the charm.
What I find mind boggling is people who can't see what Trump really is. Instead they drink to Kool-Aid, burry their heads in the sand and ignore facts when its right in front of their faces. Robert, in a way you remind me of my cousin. Great guy with his heart in the right place and all but at times he can get tunnel vision. Trump is an egotistical piece of shit who is way in over his head. More importantly he doesn't care about you, or any of his other supporters he only cares about himself. Classic definition of a narcissist... everything is all about him.
I am glad he is ok and wasn't hurt or worse and as I stated earlier I do not support political violence of any kind. Hopefully there are no more incidents like this going forward.
I don't think a president can be successful if he doesn't have an ego. While being egotistical is mostly a negative personality trait, it will drive someone to do a better job. His gloating can be annoying, but an ego will drive someone to be the best and his four years as president were easily the best in my lifetime. As far as ignoring facts, as I mentioned earlier, I pull from an aggregate of information and use my best judgment. I have to admit to myself that I do not know shit in order to make proper judgment. If I act as though I know all the answers in politics it's foolish, because I have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. For example, I'm not foolish enough to be a conspiracy theorist for everything that occurs politically, but I'm also not foolish enough to just rule everything out and take the news at its word.
What's driven me closer to Trump since 2016 is my belief that most presidents are bought off by the establishment and run the country the way the establishment sees fit, as well as the way he was attacked the minute he ran against the establishment. Trump has been the only person in politics in decades to address the establishment to its face and condemn them, refusing their money and even donating his presidential salary. Suddenly everyone who loved Trump turned on him. They began with a racist rhetoric which is so clearly false, a Hitler comparison to try to scare the casual voter into thinking he's going to cause a nuclear war when he is the only president in our lifetime that has not gotten us into any new wars. The smear campaigns never stick, but are always timed right around election season. People endorsing him also getting the smear treatment. You have the left claiming RFK decapitated a dead whale on a beach while and declaring him a monster, yet they celebrate abortion. It's a disgusting game, but Trump is the exact person everybody was asking for in 2012. People just hate him because of his name and his personality. TDS is a real thing.
if this is about unbias concern for safety, where is the thread about pelosi's husband being attacked? where is the thread about bombs being sent to several high level democrats (including biden and harris before they became prez and vp)? this concern is all about trump and how it can be spun into an attack by the deep state. it's pretty troubling in my opinion.
and i do hope that attempt is all that happens. that's even too much, but yeah. that's already happened. but it doesn't have to be a big conspiracy. and there is no evidence that either one was. only that trump, vance, and the maga media mouthpieces all want it to be, because it serves him and his outsider narrative.
The topic of Trump being shot at is not so much about concern for the safety of Trump, but more so that two, apparently random, weirdos tried to assassinate a former president and current presidential candidate within a couple months of each other during an election season. Seems very fishy, but we also don't know. And to both fully deny that they were each just lone gunmen and to also fully deny that an alphabet agency could not have possibly had a hand in any of this is completely naive.
Again, pull from an aggregate, admit we truly know nothing and are susceptible to political bias on all sides of the media, and use your best judgment to determine the truth. You have to be honest with yourself and set aside any potential political bias if you're going to reach any meaningful conclusion. If you seek a conclusion that goes with your own belief system, then your priorities are not truth, but rather seeking the answers that make you feel better about your political affiliation. A clear sign of tunnel vision.
And the notion that Trump being shot at only serves his outsider narrative only works if he isn't assassinated. If Trump didn't turn his head, I don't think the outsider narrative matters much anymore. He's dead.
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
zombie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:20 pm
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
You are able to not know something, and use your best judgment to get as accurate an assessment of the truth as possible. I have studied the JFK assassination for over 20 years, and I still do not know.
But look at the alternative to the attempt, Donald Trump dying would only serve the democrats since the Republicans would have nobody nearly as popular that you can just plug into the nomination on a moment's notice. They would almost certainly win the election in this case and Trump is just a memory.
They've repeatedly denied Trump additional security for his rallies, you know.
zombie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:20 pm
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
You are able to not know something, and use your best judgment to get as accurate an assessment of the truth as possible. I have studied the JFK assassination for over 20 years, and I still do not know.
But look at the alternative to the attempt, Donald Trump dying would only serve the democrats since the Republicans would have nobody nearly as popular that you can just plug into the nomination on a moment's notice. They would almost certainly win the election in this case and Trump is just a memory.
you never claimed you weren't gonna vote a certain way, because kennedy got shot. you went into that with more of an open mind, seemingly. maybe that jaded you and that's why you're quicker to judgment. i don't know. but still less of an open mind seemingly.
you think that maga is just going to settle back down after trump's next four years? was this movement just for fun, then? i don't buy that. i think a lot of people took it seriously, even if trump didn't. (and i'm not saying he isn't just trying to understand your logic on this)
zombie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:20 pm
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
You are able to not know something, and use your best judgment to get as accurate an assessment of the truth as possible. I have studied the JFK assassination for over 20 years, and I still do not know.
But look at the alternative to the attempt, Donald Trump dying would only serve the democrats since the Republicans would have nobody nearly as popular that you can just plug into the nomination on a moment's notice. They would almost certainly win the election in this case and Trump is just a memory.
you never claimed you weren't gonna vote a certain way, because kennedy got shot. you went into that with more of an open mind, seemingly. maybe that jaded you and that's why you're quicker to judgment. i don't know. but still less of an open mind seemingly.
you think that maga is just going to settle back down after trump's next four years? was this movement just for fun, then? i don't buy that. i think a lot of people took it seriously, even if trump didn't. (and i'm not saying he isn't just trying to understand your logic on this)
I don't know what you mean there.
I hope it's not for fun. I like less government, cheaper groceries, lower taxes, secure borders, no new wars and drilling for oil on our own land. I don't even see Make America Great Again as a movement. It's a slogan that taps into political ideas that most citizens have been clamoring for for a long time that many politicians have promised to implement and never attempted to deliver. It's not like they were obstructed by a stacked House or Senate, there was never even an attempt at these things. Read my lips, no new taxes.
zombie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:20 pm
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
You are able to not know something, and use your best judgment to get as accurate an assessment of the truth as possible. I have studied the JFK assassination for over 20 years, and I still do not know.
But look at the alternative to the attempt, Donald Trump dying would only serve the democrats since the Republicans would have nobody nearly as popular that you can just plug into the nomination on a moment's notice. They would almost certainly win the election in this case and Trump is just a memory.
you never claimed you weren't gonna vote a certain way, because kennedy got shot. you went into that with more of an open mind, seemingly. maybe that jaded you and that's why you're quicker to judgment. i don't know. but still less of an open mind seemingly.
you think that maga is just going to settle back down after trump's next four years? was this movement just for fun, then? i don't buy that. i think a lot of people took it seriously, even if trump didn't. (and i'm not saying he isn't just trying to understand your logic on this)
I don't know what you mean there.
I hope it's not for fun. I like less government, cheaper groceries, lower taxes, secure borders, no new wars and drilling for oil on our own land. I don't even see Make America Great Again as a movement. It's a slogan that taps into political ideas that most citizens have been clamoring for for a long time that many politicians have promised to implement and never attempted to deliver. It's not like they were obstructed by a stacked House or Senate, there was never even an attempt at these things. Read my lips, no new taxes.
cheaper groceries and less government would be nice, if we got that. if we didn't get a lot of shit and only spoken promises to pull people into voting for the other shit that comes along with those promises. that's kind of very similar to every politician at least during my life time.
zombie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:20 pm
if you went into this admitting that you don't know, rather than already coming in with this must be something bigger and reason why you won't vote dem. etc etc. then it would be easier to go to that position in later posts. be more open to wherever the truth takes you, rather than making your own truth.
as for the outsider narrative. it would still work, only he'd be a martyr instead of a survivor victim. he really would be their kennedy or their jesus christ. whatever. and again, i don't want that for him or anyone else.
You are able to not know something, and use your best judgment to get as accurate an assessment of the truth as possible. I have studied the JFK assassination for over 20 years, and I still do not know.
But look at the alternative to the attempt, Donald Trump dying would only serve the democrats since the Republicans would have nobody nearly as popular that you can just plug into the nomination on a moment's notice. They would almost certainly win the election in this case and Trump is just a memory.
you never claimed you weren't gonna vote a certain way, because kennedy got shot. you went into that with more of an open mind, seemingly. maybe that jaded you and that's why you're quicker to judgment. i don't know. but still less of an open mind seemingly.
you think that maga is just going to settle back down after trump's next four years? was this movement just for fun, then? i don't buy that. i think a lot of people took it seriously, even if trump didn't. (and i'm not saying he isn't just trying to understand your logic on this)
I don't know what you mean there.
I hope it's not for fun. I like less government, cheaper groceries, lower taxes, secure borders, no new wars and drilling for oil on our own land. I don't even see Make America Great Again as a movement. It's a slogan that taps into political ideas that most citizens have been clamoring for for a long time that many politicians have promised to implement and never attempted to deliver. It's not like they were obstructed by a stacked House or Senate, there was never even an attempt at these things. Read my lips, no new taxes.
cheaper groceries and less government would be nice, if we got that. if we didn't get a lot of shit and only spoken promises to pull people into voting for the other shit that comes along with those promises. that's kind of very similar to every politician at least during my life time.
It is kind of funny that every president who ran the country for 28 of the last 32 years are coming out against the one guy who seems to be intent on actually keeping his promises.
Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:13 pm
It is kind of funny that every president who ran the country for 28 of the last 32 years are coming out against the one guy who seems to be intent on actually keeping his promises.
i don't like a lot of the promises he makes. and i don't see a lot of evidence that he means to make smaller government, nor that he wants to bring cost of living down broadly.
but it is interesting to see the lengths that everyone will go to to play their roles in living up to how he portrays american politics and media to be. face vs a gang of heels and just as serious and real as a wrestling match. if only we were all in on the game. but it does have actual consequences for us, as the little guys.
Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:13 pm
It is kind of funny that every president who ran the country for 28 of the last 32 years are coming out against the one guy who seems to be intent on actually keeping his promises.
i don't like a lot of the promises he makes. and i don't see a lot of evidence that he means to make smaller government, nor that he wants to bring cost of living down broadly.
but it is interesting to see the lengths that everyone will go to to play their roles in living up to how he portrays american politics and media to be. face vs a gang of heels and just as serious and real as a wrestling match. if only we were all in on the game. but it does have actual consequences for us, as the little guys.
Unfortunately Trump has a way of luring people into his orbit like a black hole. You can show them the evidence that he’s a con man who’s a convicted felon. He’s ripped off banks, other businesses, etc. It doesn’t matter to these people, they won’t believe a word you say no matter how right you are. They’re brainwashed simple as that.
Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:43 pm
Alrighty. If that's all you got from that.
I'll have to take your own personal diagnosis of Trump with a grain of salt, though.
You can take it however you want. I stand by what I have said in regards to Trump. You say things like "He's against the establishment." In reality he is a billionaire who is PART of said establishment. Fighting against it does him no good. He is a salesman who is good at telling people what they want to hear just to get what he wants for himself. He was in office for 4 years and the only things he ultimately accomplished was lowering taxes on the ultra rich elite class and stacking SCOTUS with evangelical nut cases, one of them sexually assaulted a woman in college. He has lied repeatedly about his association with the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 among dozen of other lies and then there's the fact he is a convicted felon. I am not the only person here to point these things out to you. Zombie, Sebastian, Headhunter and many others have all said the same things and yet you still justify his bullshit, make excuses, and spout conspiracy theories. You even went as far as stating that ego manic and a narcissistic personality are qualities of good leadership. That is some of the most ABSURD SHIT I have ever heard! As I have said. You've got tunnel vision.
On a more personal note. I have never had a problem with you and to the best of my knowledge you've never had one with me. I'd rather it not go that direction so I am leaving this conversation. But I will say this, I am starting to understand why so many of the OG posters are no longer around here. Topics such of politics are highly divisive, it has nothing to do with Horror and should have never been allowed on the forum in the first place.
politics gets personal in a way that most other topics don't. but it's not the politics, it's the way that we discuss it. we should all still treat each other civilly despite our viewpoint or attachment (or lack of) to certain politicians. and that goes both ways. i know i can kind of be a shit about it too. and maybe i'm part of the reason that some people left or cut back on their time here. it sucks... but it's on us. not on the topics being available to talk about.
Jason wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:43 pm
Alrighty. If that's all you got from that.
I'll have to take your own personal diagnosis of Trump with a grain of salt, though.
You can take it however you want. I stand by what I have said in regards to Trump. You say things like "He's against the establishment." In reality he is a billionaire who is PART of said establishment. Fighting against it does him no good. He is a salesman who is good at telling people what they want to hear just to get what he wants for himself. He was in office for 4 years and the only things he ultimately accomplished was lowering taxes on the ultra rich elite class and stacking SCOTUS with evangelical nut cases, one of them sexually assaulted a woman in college. He has lied repeatedly about his association with the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 among dozen of other lies and then there's the fact he is a convicted felon. I am not the only person here to point these things out to you. Zombie, Sebastian, Headhunter and many others have all said the same things and yet you still justify his bullshit, make excuses, and spout conspiracy theories. You even went as far as stating that ego manic and a narcissistic personality are qualities of good leadership. That is some of the most ABSURD SHIT I have ever heard! As I have said. You've got tunnel vision.
On a more personal note. I have never had a problem with you and to the best of my knowledge you've never had one with me. I'd rather it not go that direction so I am leaving this conversation. But I will say this, I am starting to understand why so many of the OG posters are no longer around here. Topics such of politics are highly divisive, it has nothing to do with Horror and should have never been allowed on the forum in the first place.
I think the issue here is you seem to know for a fact that your opinion is correct and are just not open to the idea that you might be wrong about Trump. You think he only lowered taxes for the mega rich but in reality I calculated my paychecks under his administration and while my income tax was around the same as it always was, each paycheck I received had a higher percentage returned to me, so he did lower taxes for the working class. Fuel hovered in the lower-middle 2-dollar range for almost all 4 years of his presidency, and I live in California. You seem to know for a fact that a SCOTUS member sexually assaulted women in college when we have absolutely no evidence to suggest it ever occurred and if it did, why wait 30-something years right as he is picked for SCOTUS? The timing of all four women coming out at the exact same time doesn't ring any alarm bells for you? Don't you think it's wrong to condemn a human being and label them a rapist or abuser without any evidence and only an accusation, especially half a lifetime later and coincidentally timed? One of the women cracked and backed out and recanted her entire story. Does that not hold any weight? You seem to be absolutely convinced that he committed 91 felonies and are not at all open to the idea that this could easily be a witch hunt brought on by the establishment he may have once been a part of and is now running against. He's openly discussed on podcasts that he worked with politicians to help his business and how nasty the entire process is. He admitted to using tax loopholes to avoid federal taxes on business losses and in the same breath pointed out that the establishment is constantly doing the same. And when he finally does release his taxes it's revealed that he pays more than the other politicians. He is the only guy to talk about corruption within politics and there is no coincidence that people like Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr. and many others on the left are jumping ship. The anti-establishment politicians seem to be backing Trump which further solidifies my belief that he is very likely not blowing smoke up our asses. The difference is, I'm willing to admit that I still do not know for sure, but as I've said before, I'm using my own best judgment in the pursuit of truth and I still lean pretty heavily in my belief that Trump, who was once part of the crooked process for his businesses, is now running against it as a modern reformer to make life a little easier for the working class. That isn't tunnel vision and I don't know why you keep trying to stick that label on me.
And of course I've never had a personal issue with you. It is easy for people to identify themselves with their political beliefs and that is a recipe for an unhappy life. Politics is beneath you, regardless of its importance to our society which is why you'll often see me posting silly memes and gifs. It's a serious thing, but it's not worth allowing it to consume you.
was obamacare a shit piece of legislation that hurt america and never should have been passed> a lot of people here say yes to al of that. does it matter that it actually did do good for a lot of americans, some of their fellow hmfers included? does it change anyone's mind on obamacare? not even a little bit. the same can be true of politicians and the perceived good that they do. in fact, it's even more murky in the case of politicians as to whether the benefit you felt under their presidency came from them or from other factors, than it is about a care act that was put into place under a president.
zombie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:04 am
politics gets personal in a way that most other topics don't. but it's not the politics, it's the way that we discuss it. we should all still treat each other civilly despite our viewpoint or attachment (or lack of) to certain politicians. and that goes both ways. i know i can kind of be a shit about it too. and maybe i'm part of the reason that some people left or cut back on their time here. it sucks... but it's on us. not on the topics being available to talk about.
I don't recall you ever being nasty or aggressive with anyone here but then again I was gone for a long time. But i have been told privately that the political discussions were part of why some left HMF. Maybe those people are wrong, idk. But I do find it odd that some OG members are not around anymore and from what I have seen this all started around a year and a half ago. Seb, Dabo, Havok, Dream, Luna, and a few others all absent and all seemed to have removed themselves from here around the same time period.
