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I've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
i never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
There's a reason why you won't see this happening the other way around. XY chromosomes means you are going to have an absolutely massive physiological advantage over someone with XX chromosomes. It's literal male vs female.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:59 pmi never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
okay. you aren't reading what i'm writing for whatever reason. i can take the hint.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:03 pmThere's a reason why you won't see this happening the other way around. XY chromosomes means you are going to have an absolutely massive physiological advantage over someone with XX chromosomes. It's literal male vs female.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:59 pmi never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
I'm not sure what you mean? You brought up an XX person being protected, and I told you that there is a reason why you don't see this happening the other way around.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:05 pmokay. you aren't reading what i'm writing for whatever reason. i can take the hint.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:03 pmThere's a reason why you won't see this happening the other way around. XY chromosomes means you are going to have an absolutely massive physiological advantage over someone with XX chromosomes. It's literal male vs female.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:59 pmi never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
i feel like the reverse could absolutely happen where a "woman" would go to fight in the men's league and thus they would be in need of protecting by your standard, no?Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:10 pmzombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:05 pmokay. you aren't reading what i'm writing for whatever reason. i can take the hint.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:03 pmThere's a reason why you won't see this happening the other way around. XY chromosomes means you are going to have an absolutely massive physiological advantage over someone with XX chromosomes. It's literal male vs female.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:59 pmi never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
I'm not sure what you mean? You brought up an XX person being protected, and I told you that there is a reason why you don't see this happening the other way around.
No. Imagine being a female and dedicating your life to trying to qualify in Olympic boxing and you actually do it. Then you find out you have to fight against someone with an unbelievably rare biological phenomenon that puts them at an immeasurably higher advantage than you that training simply cannot make up. You're essentially forced to fight or forfeit and you go in and get hit by a freight train. This is not the same thing as someone with XX chromosomes trying to compete against XY. Before you even put the gloves on to train on your first day, you know you're at a massive disadvantage. These women are expecting to fight against other naturally born women with roughly the same bone density and musculature. It's horrific what they're doing to female athletes.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:31 pmi feel like the reverse could absolutely happen where a "woman" would go to fight in the men's league and thus they would be in need of protecting by your standard, no?Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:10 pmzombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:05 pmokay. you aren't reading what i'm writing for whatever reason. i can take the hint.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:03 pmThere's a reason why you won't see this happening the other way around. XY chromosomes means you are going to have an absolutely massive physiological advantage over someone with XX chromosomes. It's literal male vs female.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:59 pmi never said inclusion. i'm for excluding or including equally. if a trans man or an xx man is protected from other men the way you want other women to be protected from a transwoman or an xy woman, i have no issues whatsoever.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:35 pmI've never heard of her, but Judo is not Boxing. Assuming Silva was born with XY chromosomes, that would be a massive advantage, yes, but Boxing is an already incredibly dangerous sport. Judo is grappling and throwing your weight around. Boxing is using your muscles to throw bones at people's heads. Safety is of a bigger concern than inclusion. Let it be noted that the IBA never barred Imane from fighting, only from fighting females.
I'm not sure what you mean? You brought up an XX person being protected, and I told you that there is a reason why you don't see this happening the other way around.
fair enough, i guess politics is too big for us to discuss this impartially.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:43 pm
No. Imagine being a female and dedicating your life to trying to qualify in Olympic boxing and you actually do it. Then you find out you have to fight against someone with an unbelievably rare biological phenomenon that puts them at an immeasurably higher advantage than you that training simply cannot make up. You're essentially forced to fight or forfeit and you go in and get hit by a freight train. This is not the same thing as someone with XX chromosomes trying to compete against XY. Before you even put the gloves on to train on your first day, you know you're at a massive disadvantage. These women are expecting to fight against other naturally born women with roughly the same bone density and musculature. It's horrific what they're doing to female athletes.
If that's how you want to see it. I just gave my opinion.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:55 pmfair enough, i guess politics is too big for us to discuss this impartially.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:43 pm
No. Imagine being a female and dedicating your life to trying to qualify in Olympic boxing and you actually do it. Then you find out you have to fight against someone with an unbelievably rare biological phenomenon that puts them at an immeasurably higher advantage than you that training simply cannot make up. You're essentially forced to fight or forfeit and you go in and get hit by a freight train. This is not the same thing as someone with XX chromosomes trying to compete against XY. Before you even put the gloves on to train on your first day, you know you're at a massive disadvantage. These women are expecting to fight against other naturally born women with roughly the same bone density and musculature. It's horrific what they're doing to female athletes.
Well obviously. You're zomb.
It's all over social media though. The mentality is as hilarious as it is depressing.i said politics, not your politics. talk to you later.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:57 pmIf that's how you want to see it. I just gave my opinion.zombie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:55 pmfair enough, i guess politics is too big for us to discuss this impartially.Jason wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:43 pm
No. Imagine being a female and dedicating your life to trying to qualify in Olympic boxing and you actually do it. Then you find out you have to fight against someone with an unbelievably rare biological phenomenon that puts them at an immeasurably higher advantage than you that training simply cannot make up. You're essentially forced to fight or forfeit and you go in and get hit by a freight train. This is not the same thing as someone with XX chromosomes trying to compete against XY. Before you even put the gloves on to train on your first day, you know you're at a massive disadvantage. These women are expecting to fight against other naturally born women with roughly the same bone density and musculature. It's horrific what they're doing to female athletes.
HRT is for raising test to normal levels, typically for older men, but also for people with low-test from other issues. It shouldn't be confused with other PED's that are used to increase test beyond normal levels. It should also be noted that taking HRT is a lifelong thing as your body will stop producing test naturally if you take it long enough.
I didn't know who imane was until two or three days ago either. Nobody would unless they follow female boxing closely and nobody really does. But even so, the IBA did their test in 2023 to determine Imane has an unfair advantage over competitors in the women's division and barred competition against females, but did not do so against male competition.Headhunter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:17 am The unstoppable Imane Khelif has 9 losses to other biological women as a boxer and competed in the previous Olympics without anyone caring. But now everyone is a raging mouth breather and some whiny Italian had to be overdramatic (big surprise there) after losing in embarrassing fashion.
I like how there is also zero evidence that she has XY chromosomes but now everyone who said she was trans has moved on to that
if she wins. she fought hard to win and deserves the gold. if someone bests her, as has happened in the past, then they deserve to win and take the gold. i hope whatever the case that all involved can continue to have a career in boxing and don't fall into the temptation to push political agendas in the future.Jason wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 1:18 pmI didn't know who imane was until two or three days ago either. Nobody would unless they follow female boxing closely and nobody really does. But even so, the IBA did their test in 2023 to determine Imane has an unfair advantage over competitors in the women's division and barred competition against females, but did not do so against male competition.Headhunter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:17 am The unstoppable Imane Khelif has 9 losses to other biological women as a boxer and competed in the previous Olympics without anyone caring. But now everyone is a raging mouth breather and some whiny Italian had to be overdramatic (big surprise there) after losing in embarrassing fashion.
I like how there is also zero evidence that she has XY chromosomes but now everyone who said she was trans has moved on to that
There is overwhelming and compelling evidence but people choose to ignore it and would rather believe what fits their personal purview. As far as winning gold, this person is very likely going to win it if there exists male bone density and musculature inside that body.
I certainly have sympathy for both situations. A woman having to compete against a male body that happens to have female genitalia, and I simply can't imagine living the life that Imane has lived. It just simply isn't fair for that person to compete against women and to hardyhar at the woman who quit given the situation is kinda fucked up imo.